3Guys1Book - Latest Comments in Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Patrick T. Kilgallon — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:17 -0000

Thanks for the information. Does it helps to write a serial chapter every two weeks or so to build up readers' interests? I think Scott Sigler of the 'Infected' did that. I have been trying that myself with my second dystopia horror novel but the results seem slow to someone like myself who likes instant results. Any thoughts on that?

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

jonathan evison — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:48:06 -0000

. . . you're right about windows of opportunity, larry . . . i'm glad i followed lulu with something really ambitious because i wanna' go out swinging . . . i know several writers who had some success with a debut (let's call them doubles), then ended up selling earlier novels to their publishers while the iron was hot . . . in every case, the second (aka earlier) book failed them . . . if you're going to brand yourself as an author rather than a title in the literary fiction game, i think you need to show your readers (as well as the critics) some sort of growth or progression with each novel (at least up until number four . . .

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Larry — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:28:40 -0000

The major publishers are looking for home runs. If your first book is a single or a double, they'll give you another shot. After that and no dinger, and you're under the bus.

When I broke in (2000) my publisher threw us a bash one night while we were at Bouchercon. There were 19 of us there, with only one "name" author among us (Jan Burke). A few of us hit singles and doubles.

Now, 9 years later, there are only two names from that group that are still on the shelves that I can find. The one's I've talk all lost their contracts. No home runs after 2 to 4 tries, it's under the bus.

The point is to write BIG BOOKS that stand a shot at going over the fence. Certain stories are made to be bestsellers -- high concept, wildly original stuff -- while literary and series fiction has to fight the odds.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

jonathan evison — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:08:54 -0000

. . . to address natasha's question about balancing writing time with bloggin/promoting time, i find myself at a huge advantage to almost every writer i've ever met . . . that's all i do . . .i don't work, that's how i make time . . . i'm broke most of the time, but i'm getting by . . .thank god for film money . . . my friend carol cassella (author of oxygen)is a freaking doctor and has two sets of twins and still gets it done writing wise, though she has little to no time for blogging and promotion . . .it's a grind . . . my hats off to any writer working full time and still wearing the other hats!

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Dan Wickett — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:12:38 -0000

Great point by Kelly. I know that one of our authors had a book deal for his first novel many years back. His editor left and his book never saw the light of day.

I do think that's an advantage of a smaller publisher, especially those where the owners are the publishers and not a case where the publishers have gone out to find funding, or brought in Managing Editors to run things for them.

Obviously it's not foolproof, nothing is, Richard Nash leaving Soft Skull may not have been a surprise to everybody but I know it caught me off guard. And he's certainly not the first to leave a smaller house.

There are places that come to mind though - Unbridled with Fred/Greg who have now worked together for what, 20 years?, and have brought their authors from house to house in their trio of stables; Two Dollar Radio where Eric and Eliza started from scratch, etc.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Kelly Cherry — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:48:22 -0000

Just want to mention one thing, an obvious thing, but I didn't see it in the posts (I did merely skim some of the posts): Often writers lose audiences because editors, publicists, and agents jobjump A LOT. Moreover, big publishers will make all kinds of promises about sustaining a lifelong career and then drop an author instantly if a single book doesn't earn a set amount. I applaud all the good sense and energy in these posts and join in the sentiment that authors must help get their books around, but simply believing that will not guarantee that one's editor, publisher, or agent will believe it.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Natasha Solomons — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:49:33 -0000

Thanks - such a great post. I'm clearly taking your advice to heart, as I'm not lurking but leaving a comment...

I'm a debut novelist (such a strange term - makes me think of dancers making debuts, but with writers prancing across a stage, scattering words). My novel 'Mr Rosenblum's List' is coming out April 2010 with Sceptre in the UK and Little, Brown in the US.

I oscillate between excitement and sheer insomnia inducing anxiety. I know how few debut writers have success, and I'm trying to do my best blogging bit despite being a Luddite. I'm being encouraged to Twitter too, though since it seems to take me ninety thousand words to say anything, I'm not really sure that this would be my natural form. At the moment, I'm on quite a tight schedule for my second book and am finding it hard to blog as often as I should.

You guys are writers too, so do you find it hard sometimes to find the balance between writing and essentially promoting your work?

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

jonathan evison — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:02:51 -0000

. . .well, michael,can't promise a review given the sheer volume of books we receive, but send it along and maybe we'll make a mention--as likely as not about your hustling tactics . . . hit me up at my regular addy at my website (jonathanevison.com) . . .

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Michael Balkind — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:38:56 -0000

Jonathan-
Thanks for the return comment.

The Patterson & Cussler blurbs on Sudden Death were obtained by me. I have been a sales and marketing guy for a long time. I will hustle till I drop. Hopefully I'll sell a few books first.

Would you or one of your partners on this forum care to review Dead Ball?

It would mean a lot to me.

Michael

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

jonathan evison — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:10:06 -0000

. . .way to hustle, michael! cussler and patterson are a pair of logrollers . . . did you solicit their input yourself, or did your publisher solicit their endoresements?

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Michael Balkind — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:36:51 -0000

I am intrigued after reading your blog - Surving...
My second book is soon to be released and I am working as hard as I can to achieve success in this brutal business. It is seriously an uphill battle but one I intend to win or die trying.

Can I interest (persuade, beg, bribe) one of you gentlemen in evaluating and or reviewing an ARC of my upcoming novel, Dead Ball. It is the second book in my Deadly Sports Mysteries series and has received some good endorsements. (John Lescroart among others.)My first book, Sudden Death was endorsed by James Patterson & Clive Cussler. I would love the opportunity of having one of you take a peek at it. Please.

Michael Balkind

www.balkindbooks.com

mbalkind@hotmail.com

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Jonathan Evison — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:13:26 -0000

. . .ha! i feel you on the tabs, jimbo! . . .my solution was to make one of my best friends my tour manager--after three kamikazes he insists on picking up all tabs! . . . i went way over budget on my tour, but i'm pretty sure it has paid for itself by now, and will pay dividends into the future . . . could i have used that extra 2k this winter? hell yeah . . . but something deferred is . . .uh . . .um . . .something deferred, i guess . . .

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

James P. Othmer — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:59:16 -0000

Great posts. It's amazing how much things have changes since John Updike gave his BEA speech a few years ago, the partial gist of which was that promoting one's work was unbecoming for a novelist. Group readings are a great way to ensure a decent crowd and expose your work to a much broader readership. JE and Knock put on a killer event last month in Washington that I regret missing, but I couldn't make the numbers work on $700 transcontinental flight. I'm also a fan of retreating to the bar afterward. However, after one of my first readings at the excellent McNally Robinson, at which I sold about a dozen books, I went to a nearby dive bar with, coincidentally, about a dozen friends, and picked up the $250 tab. On the way home my wife suggested we should probably rethink the big shot tab-picker-upper model. I have no problem working hard to attract an audience for a book or at a reading, but you can only hit up friends and family so many times. Then again, I haven't broken out the jello shots, yet.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Josie — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:26:56 -0000

Sorry Mr. Rice. I owe you one o'them farting rainbow sliding unicorn emoticons after that mix-up!

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

jonathan evison — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:24:57 -0000

yes, josie, i think you'd be a great book publicist! and btw, the comments from "it really is three guys" are my brilliant associate JR's . . . and gina, thanks for sounding in along with dan . . . the fact that this blog is offering writers live access to editors like you two make it a really great resource . . .

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Josie — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:28:26 -0000

Not too much to ask at all, JE. There was a time when we practiced a little thing called social graces. Simple things like thank you cards have gone the way of many written traditions but the contruct of etiquette is meant to engineer relationships that extend farther than we can perceive. The practice may be waning but the value of social graces is still ever present.

It is precisely that which keeps me from typing out a long line of vulgarities at Blogger for attempting to edit my comments... apparently Blogger thinks I'm too wordy. Can you imagine that? ;)

Thanks for sharing that Dan. I feel encouraged to pursue my literary career interests after reading your comment.

I'm not a writer either but I have a lifetime of reading under my belt and several years now of cruising the literary cyber-hood, rubbing shoulders with writerly types, and connecting with blogging readerships. Add to that the wealth of info from those teaching and promoting the art and field of published works ... and boy have I learned a lot.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Dan Wickett — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:45:46 -0000

Gina's dead-on as usual and she's right, she and I had had more than enough e-conversations for me to know that the OV philosophy fit in perfectly with the Dzanc philosophy. It was probably the easiest decision Steve and I have made since day one.

And Josie, in my personal opinion you could not be MORE right about treating readers well, even if they're not writers. I am NOT a writer. When I started writing book reviews for the EWN back in 2000, there was no reason for anybody to listen to me - I was a QC Manager for an company that slit steel coils into narrower steel coils and had a BS in Statistics. But over the course of the last decade I've told as many people that would listen about great books, author, publishers, bookstores, reading series and literary journals.

I think that is exactly what readers do - they do more word of mouth publicizing for you than anybody else.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

It really is three guys. — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:42:02 -0000

Josie, you're right, when writers respond to our posts, we always thank them, (and write back, but they never post a comment) but not enough do, it's really strange, we told their agent, publicist and publisher about the post, we're promoting their book, for free, and we're excited readers, maybe they are shy? Maud Newton just got back to me from over a year ago when I reviewed her story, she gave me great insight as to why she took so long, and that's amazing...I'd love it if every writer we reviewed or interviewed wrote something in the comments...but is that asking too much?

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Josie — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:38:35 -0000

Pt4)Politicians shake hands and kiss babies and writers must blog and comment in the thread.

As always, looking forward to more of your insights, JonE. Soon as I figure out how to send you a farting unicorn emoticon sliding down a rainbow for a humpday celebration I'll send it right over.

Literary groupie lovin',

Josie

lol - See this is what happens when you let laypeople comment!

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Josie — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:37:13 -0000

Pt3)A lousy writer can have success if s/he has enough social appeal. Everyone knows this and the "serious writers" feel like their work should speak for them that they shouldn't have to make nice for the crowds. It's a strange cocktail of insecurity and arrogance that keeps them from building a large following.

I've been thinking about book promotion a lot because I think I'd be good at that game and I was glad to see that many of my ideas are echoed here and in the links I found in this blog. It feels like a shared vision or at least mutual consensus.

There are more writers and wanna-be-writers than ever before. What will make the difference in whom has success and whom does not lie wholly in the readership they build first hand - not through company ads.

Nash is right, Twitter won't save publishing but it damn well may save an author from perpetual anonymity in the literary realm.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Josie — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:35:32 -0000

Pt2)And yet still I find that readers are not respected in literary circles. Writers will shmooze over one another but dismiss the common reader in the comment thread. "They're not a writer. What do they know."

When I cruise through the blog communities and I see a writer comment to other writers in the thread and leave the stranger un-replied to, the one that says something like, "I've been reading here for ages but never left a comment but today I had to comment to say how great this was" I always think... that writer just lost a dozen sales, maybe hundreds.

I tell my writer friends to reply to EVERY comment. “Make shit up. You’re a writer for cryssake!”

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Josie — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:33:55 -0000

So many things I want to say after reading this blog. First - thanks for all the valuable personal insight. So much of getting published is mysterious, ya know? It's like a fluke of nature or something. Nice to see how the game works from various personal experiences.

I've been following the writers in online communities for years now and I tell writers regularly - You must participate in the comment box, aloof won't cut it.

I tell them writers only do half the work. Without readers writers have no value. That isn't something a writer, isolated in work, sweating blood and emotional angst on the page day in and day out wants to hear but it's the truth. Writing is a team effort folks! Once the book is written - it's only a half baked thing. Only when a work is read is it truly complete. And it is always the number of readers that dictates the level of success.

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Josie — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:26:51 -0000

them from building a large following.

I've been thinking about book promotion a lot because I think I'd be good at that game and I was glad to see that many of my ideas are echoed here and in the links I found in this blog. It feels like a shared vision or at least mutual consensus.

There are more writers and wanna-be-writers than ever before. What will make the difference in whom has success and whom does not lie wholly in the readership they build first hand - not through company ads.

Nash is right, Twitter won't save publishing but it damn well may save an author from perpetual anonymity in the literary realm.

Politicians shake hands and kiss babies and writers must blog and comment in the thread.

As always, looking forward to more of your insights, JonE. Soon as I figure out how to send you a farting unicorn emoticon sliding down a rainbow for a humpday celebration I'll send it right over.

Literary groupie lovin',

Josie

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

It really is three guys. — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:21:28 -0000

...we try to give away books as part of an interview, or conversation with an author, it usually gets a great response...

Re: Surviving the Odds as A Debut Novelist

Gina Frangello — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:04:23 -0000

But the other thing I want to say here that's so important for the indies is the necessity of knowing your own level of resources and maximizing that for your own benefit and the benefit of your authors. I'm concerned about an indie publishing model that seems so prevalent--the kind of "use all the money and staff time on printing as many books as possible, and then don't actually support any marketing efforts for those books" model. Both OV Books and Dzanc keep our lists relatively small (OV's is VERY small: only 1-2 titles per year) so that we can literally live and breathe a title for about a year's time, at every level of operation. We do very extensive creative editing/revision work with our authors (sometimes extremely extensive, reading revisions or asking for very specific creation of new chapters/stories for up to a year of intensive back-and-forth before a book goes to press) and then serious, hardcore copy-editing (which I know from my experience as an author is not always provided in a truly intensive way by small indies) and then arranging the author's book tour all over the country, funding part of it, and sending out anywhere between 100-200 review/publicity copies of the book ourselves, without the author needing to quit their job or hire a freelance publicist to get this job done.
When I published my first novel, my publisher had/has what I consider a great list of authors and books and I had long admired their aesthetic, and they're awesomely cool people . . . but their business plan beyond "finding good books" was nonexistent. They sent out 20 review copies, didn't provide copy-editing, and didn't set up a single event for me. The fact that the novel was reviewed at all or went into a second printing was because I was working my ass off and I had also hired a freelance publicist out of my own pocket. At OV, we WANT our writers to work their asses off, but we don't feel we have the right to require them to do that unless they see we're working as hard as they are.

That said, if an author isn't willing to build community, spend the time, tour and read and blog, then all of our efforts don't amount to much. The connection between an author an his audience--especially when you're talking about an audience in the 2,000 first-printing range--is vital and a publisher can't do all that work for you. Any author who has gotten lucky enough to find a publisher should make it his/her business to network in a sincere (not self-serving) way and support other authors/presses they like, go to readings, read other blogs, form relationships on FB and other sites, and really put themselves out there--go read anywhere that'll have you, and even if you only sell 4 copies those 4 people, if they like you enough, may tell 40 people about your book later on, or maybe one is a blogger and touts you. No effort is too small, especially when so much today can be done online for free.